Athens ''frappebabel'' - Comments

Fighting for a historical relic..the modern Macedonian Question - lukethegreek

lukethegreek — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:33:34 +03:00

As regards the modern Greek nation's continuity with ancient Greece, I would like to point out that it is unfair to say Greeks have nothing to do with ancient Greeks for the following reasons: (1) the "historical continuity" is driven by cultural traits (e.g. language, perception of history), not by blood or DNA (so, what is the American DNA)? (2) Greeks live in the same land where ancient Greece flourished and are constantly inspired by their "ancient ancestors" (culture-wise). (3) Not all nations are "melting pots" like Canada and the US; I believe that one should respect this fact!

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - Baptizer

Baptizer — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:44:48 +03:00

It should be called TYROM instead. TYRI is Greek for cheese. I think it suits those little dillusional nobodies the best as farming is the best they do.

Where are the public universities??? An erasmus experience... - xenia

xenia — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:41:20 +03:00

thank you!! i'm yugoslav, my husband is a greek. we completely agree with you, and please don't let anyone change your mind.

because i'm not an eu citizen, and i do not have residence in the eu, i had to study in the us, which means taking out a loan of 20000-40000 dollars A YEAR depending on the university and the year of studying (yes, that's twenty to forty, the zeroes are correct). it will take us 30 yrs. to repay our student loans, while rich kids often get in for free, because their parents or grandparents give gifts to the university.

this is the future which the eurocrats have in mind when they talk about elite universities.

free public universities with a wide range of subjects are our right -- worldwide!!!

Fighting for a historical relic..the modern Macedonian Question - Alonso

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Enough with the name of Macedonia! - nina

nina — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:34:45 +03:00

Unfortunately Greece went too far, not only do they deny the right to the name, they also put in question the Macedonian identity itself. It is only because of years of non-good-neighborly relations politics, years of embargo, humiliation, denial that the Republic of Macedonia is now what it is - a country where nationalism and populism rise. Never would I have imagined that my fellow Macedonians would become as radical and irrational as our neighbors. Unfortunately every day I open the news fearing a new worsening of the situation. And as much as I try to balance things in my head, I must say that this time the Greeks are more to blame than anyone else. Greeks have done a enormous damage to Macedonia and SHOULD REPAIR IT hand in hand with the progressive forces in Macedonia. I know there are reasonable people left on both sides, do not let the "Macedonian question" repeat itself.

Macedonia has the right to its name and identity and it is only through constructive dialogue that we could find a way out, as long as human rights and principles are respected.

I must add that EU and NATO have their share of the burden and should address it instead of playing deaf and blind.

Do you want another Milosevic regime in the Balkans?

Then help Macedonians out of this hysterical situation.

Unlike all of our neighbors, we have never been nationalists and we won't let that happen!

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - Filip Killer of Greeks

Filip Killer of Greeks — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:38:35 +03:00

Dear Greek fascists,

It is not enough that you have created a state on territories that were never Greek, and now you dont even let people feeel as teh prefer to feel ( is this real greek democracy)
The day will come when you will be asheme of what you did in modern history (the same as serbs are ashame of their history under slobodan milosevic).
But unlike You, Macedonians are cosmopolits , as was Alexander the Great, and will forgive You, because we want normal neighbourly relations.
May god help you and excuse your stupidity and frustrations.

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - snowman30

snowman30 — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 10:44:43 +03:00

VETO.....FOR NATO....AND EU AFTER A WHILE.....

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - Destro

Destro — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 11:57:00 +03:00

King of Macedon asked out of his ignorance how do the Greek interpret the name “Makedonia”?

Makednos or Makedon, means "tall" or "highlander".

According to Hesiod, a 700 BC poet who predates Homer; Hellen (Ancient Greek: Ἕλλην, Héllēn) was the mythological patriarch of the Hellenes, the son of Deucalion (or sometimes Zeus) and Pyrrha, brother of Amphictyon and father of Aeolus, Xuthus, and Dorus.

Hellen is also another name for Greek, meaning a person of Greek descent or pertaining to Greek culture, and the source of the adjective "Hellenic". Each of his sons founded a primary tribe of Greece - Aeolus the Aeolians, Dorus the Dorians and Xuthus the Achaeans (from Xuthus's son Achaeus) and the Ionians (from Xuthus's probably illegitimate son Ionas ) together with his sister's Pandora's and Thyia's sons with Zeus and according to Hesiod's (probably) "Eoiae" (Greek : Ηοίαι (ancient Greek Ἠοῖαι from Ἠ' οἷαι = "or such women as") or "Catalogue of Women", Graecus the Graecians, Makednos the Makedones and Magnes the Magnetes .
They conquered Phthia and subsequently spread their rule to other parts. The people of those areas came to be called Hellenes, after the name of their ancestor.

Late in the fifth century BC a Greek historian, Hellanicus, who visited the court of Macedonia, made the father of Macedon not Zeus but Aeolus, a thing which he COULD NOT have done unless he knew that the Macedonians were speaking an Aeolic dialect of GREEK. A remarkable confirmation of their Greek speech comes from the Persians, who occupied Macedonia as part of their conquests in Europe c.510-480. According to Hellanicus Makednos was one of the 10 sons of Aeolus,who was son of Hellen and founder of the Aeolian Greek tribe.

Alexander the Great is the first commander who officially uses the terms Hellas and Panhellenic League (league of all Greek tribes except for the Lacedaemonians) when he declares the beginning of his military campaign against the Persian ruler of the Greek city-states of Asia Minor (Ionia) in order to take revenge on behalf of their ancestors.

We do have some examples of the Macedonian Greek dialect and it does not resemble Slavic in any way.

By the way, 'motherland' in Slavic is 'rodina' not 'macedonia'.

Tito is dead for a long time. I do hope the Western Bulgarians of Skopje wake up to reality one day. It is not all bad being a Slav.

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - CDT

CDT — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:09:05 +02:00

Let's clarify a few things:
1) Alexander the Great was greek because that's what he thought of himself and that's what historians in the universities around the world say. He spoke greek, he believed in the greek gods. Believing that modern Slavomacedonias (or FYROMinians) are descendants of ancient macedonians is RIDICULOUS and shows how little respect they have for their own ancestors.
2) Greek macedonians claiming that they are descendants of Alexander the Great (by the way he didn't have any offsprings!!!!) is equally absurd. However, they share with Alexander the same language and the same culture, i.e. they are all Greeks.
3) The Slavomacedonians can call themselves the way they want. Greece doesn't have to recognize them and doesn't have to accept them as allies. If somebody tomorrow says Alsace is not French and Bayern is not German can certainly say so, but France or Germany will not recognize a Republic of Alsace or a Republic of Bayern next to their borders.
4) It is irrelevant whether FYROM doesn't have the capacity to use military power to "liberate" Aegean macedonia. I am from Kozani, Greek Macedonian and don't want to be "liberated" by anyone. I feel happy being Greek, speaking the language of Aristotle and Alexander. The same is true for 2.5 million Greek Macedonians (23% of the Greek citizens).
5) It is fair to require from FYROM to accept a name that differentiates from Greek Macedonia. Call it Slavic, New, Northern, Upper, Central, Vardar or anything you like to put in front of the word Macedonia. This is generous enough...
6) There are a few slavomacedonians in Greece and they are free enough to have their own party called "Ouranio Toxo". They got 6000 votes in the 2004 elections for european parliament and they represent 0.05% of Greek citizens. They didn't bother participating in the last elections. They are also free enough to complain for a million things but they have to accept the laws that all Greek citizens accept.
These are obviously not intended to persuade people that have betrayed Aristotle's logic and insist blindly in their ignorance. But I hope will help open-minded people and FYROM has plenty of them.

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - whatever

whatever — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 04:32:17 +02:00

How come so many Greeks have a problem with undoing the Caps Lock button?

Is it because they are physically as well as mentally blind?

Blind to the propaganda they have been fed about their recent past: the expulsion of the Jews from Salonika/Solun and the expulsion of Slavs from their homes in Northern Greece to make way for Greeks from Asia Minor?

Is it so difficult for you to live with yourselves? Perhaps it is because you resemble Ancient Greeks so very little that you dare not look in the mirror?

The only things evocative of the culture of Ancient Greece about modern 'Greeks' are the words 'tragic', 'hysterical', 'pathetic' and 'xenophobic'.

Take a national DNA test and find out what you are. Meanwhile,grow up or shut the f up. Everyone in Europe is sick of you--the 'Bully of the Balkans'.

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - back to the future

back to the future — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:34:44 +02:00

It's so obvious what nationalism can do in the balcans.
It is so clear what propagana can make after some decades.

The solution is so clear. No entry to Nato and EU for FYROM.
Till they find a way to respect their neighbors and also calm down a bit.
i hope also we greeks learn some more things about what happened back in the history, we were not perfect for sure.

But we were not fighting macedonians back then, we were fighting against bulgaria I suppose. Bulgaria doesn't accuse greece of attrocities as far as i know. There was no "macedonian ethnicity back then. It's a new idea born the last century.

In any case, greece will simply exercise it's right for not accepting this country to be a member of both Nato and EU.

SO simple.THis issue has to somehow settled down otherwise it will create problems for sure.

Now , if some people would like to call themselves Macedonians, then they are free to do so.

But when they make propaganda and connect themselves to ancient macedonia, then it's getting near to a tragedy.

For the time being , FYROM people they will just not be invited to enter neither EU or Nato.

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - Daskalos

Daskalos — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:00:33 +02:00

Pathetic neonazis.

With your pseudo-historical knowledge, so-called 'Greeks' and 'Macedonians'...

If you were even remotely aware of history, you would know that no entities such as 'Greece' or 'Macedonia' ever existed since the time of the Macedonian Wars, whereby Roman general Caecilius Metellus defeated Andriscos of Macedonia and the Achaean League of Greece at the Battle of Pydna in 148 BC and Corinth in 146 BC respectively, turning Macedonia and Achaia (Greece) into Roman Provinces.

Since then, major historical turning points took place, WHICH YOU SEEM TO IGNORE, fools. The Apostle Paul declared the one and only Christian Ethnos, and by the 3rd century AD, the Capital of Rome was transferred to Byzantium (Constantinople).

Thus, all Christian subjects to the Empire became part of the one Christian nation: ROME. In the East, aka VASILEIA ROMAION/ROMANIA, the multilingual nation identified as ROMAIOI, which, survived the Ottoman rule as ROMIOI.

Both modern Greeks and Macedonians have been 'Romaioi' AT LEAST since Patriarch Photius dispatched Sts Cyril and Methodius in 862 AD to Moravia, evangelising the Slavs.

A single visit to a monastery in Greece or Macedonia will proove even to the most resilient of disbelievers that both people are ORTHODOX, demonstrating clearly the ROMAIC heritage of ALL BALKAN PEOPLE, and in particular, Greeks and Macedonians.

Until recently, both Greeks and Macedonians were even attending Church IN THE SAME BUILDINGS, SIMULTANEOUSLY, the liturgies being held in Romaic (Greek) and Old Church Slavonic (Macedonian), yet, the scripts were prepared in THE SAME, NON-SLAVIC ALPHABET.

A single look at the script of the Konikovo Gospel, published in Thessaloniki, Macedonia in 1852, prooves without a shadow of doubt that I am telling you the truth. Here, look:

http://www.helsinki.fi/~jslindst/26...

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - snowman30

snowman30 — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:50:20 +02:00

Greek and macedonian is the same thing from the time of philip...proud slavobulgarian.

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - Proud Macedonian

Proud Macedonian — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:36:47 +02:00

Hristo,

Sorry, but I think schizophrenia might be a definition. Or separate personality? I am a bird and a dog. Greek and Macedonian (in ethnic terms). Fish and whale.

It simply can't be. You are a Macedonian in geographic terms, but by Greek nationality. Evan that your parents are slavophone...

It's up to you to self-declare your nationality. I can't tell you what are you. But you can't be both, isn't it so?

Cheerz

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - daniel

daniel — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:45:46 +02:00

on the topic of the name issue... its very interesting that after this latest round of talks we haven't yet heard anything about what actually happened...

a solution may be nigh?

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - hristo

hristo — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:40:22 +02:00

the prime minister of greece is macedonian, - and has stated that to the european parliament -made front page news. yes, he is a greek macedonian.

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - hristo

hristo — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:37:18 +02:00

as can be seen by the replies of all skopians, they are crude. the slav macedonians displaced from greece want a country. how absurd. should the greeks in Bitola that where displaced or the greeks from Instanbul or Smyrna ask for compensation and land back.........the wars of 1912-13 resulted in the borders of today. the greek portion of macedonia has more greeks in it than 100 years ago, as the FYROM portion has more slavs and the Bularian portion more bulgars than 100 years ago. The slavs dream of asking for greek macedonia to join as one nation is ridiculous.
I have a thought - FYROM should disintergrate - give some of it land to ALbania, and join Greece. Then the Skopians and call themselves Macedonians and believe what the want. In return, Greece should give them rights of a minority and seats in parlaiment - and protection. The skopians must think of there wellbeing and future, - the way they are thinking will leave them on the outer with the EU and NATO, infact may not survive as it is.

PS Why doesnt Greek macedonia break away from greece and call itself Republic of Macedonia,(just like Cyprus with main language as greek and greek flag ) (and use the name so that the skopians dont use it) and then in 15 years when FYROM disintergrates , rejoin Greece.

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - hristo

hristo — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:19:21 +02:00

dear proud macedonian, i am a macedonian, and i am greek, as are my ancestors before me. (and guess what- we are not refugees from asia minor as has been stated) and guess what, i come from the northernmost villages of florina and kastoria, bordering albania and FYROM. And infact, my uncle lives in Bitola (monostiri) and he is greek. But you would not understand, that us greeks inhabit greek macedonia - the way you talk would it seems as if greek macedonia is full of slavs???

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - Proud Macedonian

Proud Macedonian — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:24:44 +02:00

Forgot to mention:
You will have 4 more millions of Albanians gratis with the occupation... As you love them as much to ally with them...

Enough with the name of Macedonia! - Proud Macedonian

Proud Macedonian — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:23:19 +02:00

Hristaki,

Just read up a bit. I invited you to come and invade my country. So we can be even. We invaded you 20 centuries ago and you now. But we did not change your name. Ahaia? Or Athens? Or Teba? Or Sparta...